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We got what we deserved...

I had said a few times that I would not mind, maybe even would not care if England did not get through to Euro 2008 - now that we have done just that, not qualified, I am absolutely gutted...

Basically tonight summed up our whole qualification campaign, it was a shambles as has been the whole process. Spineless Steve is to blame, the players are also to blame but the ones to blame most of all are the ones that are even more spineless than anyone, the fat cats at the Football Association.

Instead of counting the money, they need to start looking out for the best of English football again - and this means firstly looking at themselves in the mirror, then many of them moving aside, failing that they need to look at who is in charge, but then again most of the players need to do the same as well...

Spineless Steve has to do the honourable thing and resign, if he wont then the FA have to do the next best thing and ask him to move on, but then again as said these fellas need to look at themselves too as they are as much to blame as anyone, probably more so as Spineless Steve was never the right man.

We were given a lifeline at the weekend but we blew it tonight.

Credit where it is due does have to go to Croatia who were fantastic but we basically got what we deserved, not just from tonight's showing, in which we were poor, but for the whole performance over 12 games.

On the match itself I do not want to say I, or should I say 'we' told you so and do not lay the blame at Scott Carson's door as I feel really sorry for him but this was a game that I do not think that he should have started in as only his 2nd cap, the 1st qualifying game probably, the last - probably not... and this is not said in hindsight - you fellas know my thoughts on this issue - which is a wonderful thing.

As I say the blame is not being put on Carson, he is a fantastic keeper and is the future for England. We lost it over 12 games, it should not have come down to the final game.

Well what can you say, at least we can look forward to a home nations championship this summer - unless the FA are too frightened to take part?

Anyway, at least Pompey return this weekend - come on fellas lets bring home 3 points.


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The Journalist

Writer: pompeyrug Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Wednesday November 21 2007

Time: 10:42PM

Your Comments

You're right, we didn't deserve to take our place at the table. Croatia played extremely well (Kranky and Olic in particular), and our bizarre team selection (well....Carson mostly) certainly didn't help. It really brought it home when the Beeb commentary team were praying for an Andorra goal after the game.....
It's just as well that neither Robbo nor Calamity were in goal tonight otherwise the blame would have been deflected from where it truly lies - with Maclaren and the FA. The press will cut Carson some slack, unlike our senior goalkeepers! I won't be happy if its just Maclaren that gets sacked - BARWICK MUST GO TOO!!!!
Id sack the lot, manager, board and over paid prima donna players, just not good enough
totally agree mate that spineless steve's head isnt the only that should roll - and probably will with an 'emergency meeting' called tomorrow, that fat pig brian barwick - and his 'friends' - also need to be held accountable for their actions, or should that be lack of them...
as far as robbo or 'calamity' - a tag jamo lost long ago in all fairness - i admit i am glad jamo wasnt at fault, but tbh i do not think he would have conceded as carson did... i feel for carson, he made a real balls up and looked dodgy in the 1st half but made a fine save in the 2nd... yep i know you have to 'blood' new players at some point, but there is a 'right' and a 'wrong' time, the final must not lose qualifier isnt and wasnt the right time for this - and i have been arguing this point for the last week or more!
the only fella to come out of the game with any credit was crouchy - he showed just why i think he would be a fantastic signing if we could get him back... how the hell did fat frank pick up the man of the match award? was stevie wonder judging this or something...
What infuriates me most is that we all knew that the England don't know how to coach 4-5-1. Whenever they've played anything other than 4-4-2, they've f***ed it up. Never mind spineless Steve - it's brainless Steve! .. and if your going to play one up front, put someone there who's used to playing that role - not Crouch's fault but he's no lone striker and Barry's no holding midfielder! I'm just ranting now but MACLAREN IS AN IDIOT!!!!
Rug, your joking surely, how was fat frank mom?? Just not in the game. Jamo just wouldnt of let that 1st goal in!!
Thought England looked a better team with Beckham in it, more urgency and a bit of passion. Crouch took his goal well.
its good to have a rant mate - it releases the frustration and agression, saves the dog or cat taking a shoeing :-) at least we wont have to go through a penalty shoot-out defeat in the last 8 as usual... if croatia can pull it all together and delivery the good they could be a strong candidate to win euro 2008, they will be the team i will be supporting anyway, krunchie can help inspire them to victory!
seriously mate they announced it at the end of the game 'and england's man of the match, no.8 frank lampard'... i couldnt believe it, the fella barely touched the ball, it must have been a case of i know what he's had a hard time recently, he also had the balls to take the penalty let him 'ave it! either that, or as i say stevie wonder was the guess motm selector...
I doubt Jamo would have let any of the three in. Why did we play Frank Carson in goal it was a joke. A great keeper for the future but what will that have done for his confidence?
yep, most definitely the right man, but at the wrong time... i sincerely hope that he doesnt suffer as a result of this, he's a fantastic keeper but should never have been put in the situation he was.
I would love to see Crouch come back to Fratton Park as well. Also, what is the point of being England's no. 2 goalkeeper if your not used when the no. 1 is dropped. I feel sorry for James but I'm sure he will get another chance in the run up to the world cup. I just hope Redknapp isn't in charge (could possibly happen could it?)
lets not even think about this mate - i think it is pretty safe to say that spineless will be getting the boot tomorrow, they've - the fa - have called an emergency meeting, which i doubt it to confirm they want him to stay on! hopefuly barwick will also go... isnt it the world cup draw this week? if so the fa wouldnt take him along if they werent keeping him would they... 'arry could well be approached, but i dont think he would get it.
Completely agree with Dave. Jamo would not have let at least two of them in. But as I said when we knew he wasn't being selected, at least they can't blame it on him when things get ugly, which they did. Absolutely unacceptable. It isn't just McLown who should lose his job here, but the FA board who were responsible for picking him and who will steadfastly refuse to pick anyone who isn't a " yes man " as his replacement. What a bloody shambles.
There was an Arsenal fan who posted here yesterday who noted that France took their whole system apart after not qualifying in '94 and built a team who went on to win the World Cup. Does the FA have the balls to De-Beckhamize the English national squad ? (i.e. extract the overrated glitz, WAGS and unacceptable work ethic from national football)...I doubt it.
what a game... like I said few days ago, that gona be spectacle and I was get right. ..Proud to be CROAT.... I sorry for England, Stevie R.I.P... nice shoot from Niko, great pass from Eduardo for 0:2.. I was on the stadium last night and now I'm without my voice, 6000 croats on the stadium...what a night
Toronto, yes the french did revamp everything from top to bottom, after they failed to qualify for the World Cup in 1994. Obviously they won the World Cup and European Cup. I said this after the 2006 World Cup. If a fan can see it, why can't so called experts see it? Nobs like Barwick know f u c k all about football. What ever happens McClaren and the players have let there country down. Cheers for ruining my trip to Austria and Switzerland next year lads.
Real Deal
i bet that you are very proud andycroat28, and rightly so croatia have been fantastic during qualifying - as ive said earlier in this thread, if they can pull it all together next summer they will do really well, and it wouldnt be unthinkable that they might go all the way... agreed fellas the whole structure needs looking at, but we know that those counting the cash - which is all they do - will not stand aside that easily will they...
Andy you have every right to be proud of your team, ironic that Nico got a goal wasnt it, i bet the Brummies give him a good reception! It was poor though wasnt it? To claw our way back and then chuck it away was disgrace i just hope that they go for the'chosen one' But lets be honest now lads, we have no world class performers, and those who think they are need to take a long hard look at themselves as they have let us down. Good luck to Croatia in the finals you deserve to be there.
coppello has aid he would like the job, if mourinho wants it let him take it, ideally i would like arsene wenger to take it on but he wont leave arsenal - and i wouldnt blame him... i hope we dont try and entice fat phil from portugal, he turned it down once - he shouldnt be offered it again... while i agree with alot - as usual - that youve said mate i dont quite believe the 'no world class performers' bit, we do have some, i wont name names, but in my opinion we do altho we are nowhere near as 'great' as we think we are... either way, i echo you last thoughts - good luck to krunchie and croatia next summer, they'll be the team i will be supporting.
McClown I told you so - you worthless waste of space. I think you're about to get what you deserve now, good riddance.
I would fear for your manager. I think Redknapp is next up for England
Jacky B
The entire FA should go as well as McClown. The failure was utterly predictable - they have all presided over the demise of the national team. The idea of the Premiership/Premier League was that it was to benefit the England team and that is a fact, on public record. There are only 36 England players in the Premier League. IF and it's now a big IF....people care about the national team then there has to be some radical work done on the whole structure of the game. Never has there been so much money in the the game but rarely has there been such a dearth of English talent. People talk about the players' lack of pride and passion but there is a more fundemental flaw.....lack of technical ability and tactical leadership.
McClaren might have gone but here we are back where we've been many times before with the hunt for a 'suitable' England manager. I think time (as we have plenty of that now) needs to be taken in the appointment of a successor to SMcC. The usual names are being banded about already. Why would Martin O'Neill want to leave Aston Villa? Would Newcastle let Allardyce leave (and would England want him)? Does Jose Mourinho need the hassle having been made financially secure for life by chelsea? Could the FA accomodate Mourinho's entourage (ie sacking ray Clemence, etc)? Guus Hiddink isn't going to leave Russia and I can't see Big Phil Scolari walking out on Portugal before next summer? That leaves Lippi, Capello. Jewell, and even amazingly Alan Shearer in the frame. Harry's even been mentioned on Sky Sports this morning on the strength of being the top English manager in the Premiership at present? I'd organise a huge protest if the FA tried to poach him! the one name no one has mentioned is the U-21 manager Stuart Pearce thank god. Why don't we go back to the days of the 1950's when an anonymous FA committee picked the squad (and the team) and left coach Walter Winterbottom to get them in shape. We never won anything (like now) but at least the manager could blame the FA rather than the other way round.
The Rabbi
Jacky B, im starting to fear for alittle, but i think it will be 'the special one' and i hope it is... ideally i would like wenger but he will not leave arsenal, 'arry would miss the day to day runnings of football - i hope! so that rules him out... please god, rule him out!
I'd be happy with the special one as well. Harry would do an excellent job, but I really hope he doesn't go!! As for players - they all played badly, but they are all good players. And I don't believe any of them had poor motivation (alhtough it looked like it). So something else is very badly wrong.
You can't blame the pitch or the weather as it was no different for Croatia. If the England players can't motivate themselves for this then we should stop playing international football for a few years. Maybe they justed wanted a proper summer holiday next year?
The Rabbi
I want Harry
Jacky B
who do you support jacky B? no sane Pompey fan would say that?
The Rabbi
the blame starts well and truely at the top and works down! the clowns as the fa have to shoulder the full brunt of all the anger really dont they - they keep wasting money on crap - the stadium cost us a fortune and the pitch is terrible, but the american football they put on at wembley recently cant have helped can it, but then again that was done 'for the money!'... nope, im not blaming the pitch for one moment tho, we didnt go out because of that, nor did we lose becuase of it. as i say the spineless gits at the fa need to take blame, they appointed a man that was blatantly obviously the wrong man to begin with... he should have resigned, but at least they sacked him - brian barwick should now follow him!
not even 'arry's wife says 'i want harry'...
Hang on, we had 2 players on that squad (Jamo and Cambell) that form a partnership week in week out, train together 4 times a week, and train with Niko. 2 players that are comfortable with each other and both know Niko inside out. therefore does it take a manger, or rocket scientist, or someone with a bit of common sence or any of those 3, to think... mmm i know, i'll put the 2 players that know all about him in my team, to combat him, as he is probably their main threat, or shall i ignor common sense. FFS i wuld think any other manger would have used that inside knowledge, combination and put those 2 names on my team sheet ahead of anyone else. Also Jamo is big enough and old enough to weather any rubbish the press throw at him, unlike Carson who is only a kid, and could be ruined if the press wanted to use him as a scape goat. Luckily they wont pick on him, as the whole country are more interested in letting Spineless steve know what a twot he is, including the press. Have i gone on a bit... should i shut up now... sorry for venting but i feel better now.
its good Midge - ive vented alot of anger in my posts in this thread, i still keep coming back for more, as just when i think ive released it all something else returns :-) i can say - as can alot of us - 'i told you so' over the jamo oversight in favour of carson... i feared this happening and told anyone that would listen i feared it happening, and it did!
I never saw Robinson being dropped to be replaced by Carson. Never saw it. I thought it was a straight choice between our Jamo & Robinson. So we lose out on seeing our boys at Euro 08. Fck it. Barry is so left sided when did he become a centre holding player. Lamps & SG didbn't have a clue. Should have been 442. What a missed opportunity. Can't see why the FA didn't give spineless a contract taking him up to these finals & extending the contract only if we qualify. Sacking him with a 2m+ payoff is an insult to us all.
I feel that the FA will again choose the wrong person, thay are faceless and gutless. Trevor Brooking and some senior ex players like Sir Bobby Charlton and Martin Peters for instance should be part of the next process. Look at what is required to manage this team and then pursue the best man, if its Wenger, Mourinho or god forbid Harry then they have to give them an offer they cant refuse. If its Hiddink who is taking a 'lessser nation' to the finals or Scolari, give them the control and the wage that means that they cant say no. Lets be honest Hope Powell did a better job with the ladies team than Spineless at least they qualified for the World Cup final, maybe he should have turned to her for help!!
2m payoff. FFS sake he failed... if you get rid, to get in new blood then pay compensation, but when you screw up you get fired end of. Why is Football any different to a normal job. I am a manager for an IT Company. If i dont deliver i dont get my bonus, if i fail i get warnings, if screw up i will be sacked. Thats it, end of, FACT.... It makes me sick that idiots like him ruin everyones summer and still get PAID!!!! Arrrggghhh...
And another rant. Why did Bridge Play, He was absolutely crap!
Why should Martin peters, bobby charlton, or trevor brooking be involved in the process? Just because they were good england players doesn't make them a good judge of a future england manager does it? none of them enjoyed a successful time as a manager. I think a Sun readers poll would do the job as successfully to be honest. Aren't the top bods at the FA employed to make important decisions like this rather than get someone else to do the job?
The Rabbi
Midge, McClarens contract was there to protect both him and the FA. they can dismiss him as they like but have to pay him off. McClaren can't be lured away (to manage Barcelona or Real Madrid after England win Euro 2008) without the FA receiving compensation. Its the way a lot of companies work with their upper management in a bid to keep things stable. On a similar note Steve bruce is haggling for a 225k bonus from birmingham he thinks he is owed while the club don't. The fact that he is going to Wigan on 40k a week doesn't seemed to have affected his decision to fight for the 225k. Its not the real world but a make believe world where money talks.
The Rabbi
I am a Spurs fan
Jacky B
thought so. good luck with the relegation fight. At least you know now that you haven't got the worst English goalkeeper?
The Rabbi
relegation fight! Fancy a gentlemans that we finsh above you?
Jacky B
gentlemens? The table doesn't lie. Its all about points not performances. You only get points for that in Ice Skating.
The Rabbi
Now now gentlemen ! Doubt they'll get relegated but they won't finish above us either. I think the England manager should be selected from among his peers. i.e. any existing manager of English nationality, Premier League through League 2, gets a vote. And yeah Rug, I'd give the job to Mourinho too but the stuff shirts at the FA are unlikely to want to deal with " that sort of chap " !
And congrats to Croatia. Real champions always have a killer instinct. Good luck at Euro 08.
you have got to love the banter on vital football - its what makes it so good! yep spurs will stay up but i'll take you up on the 'gentlemans' that pompey finish above spurs...
What is a 'gentlemans'? I understand a monkey is 500, and apple and pears is stairs, plates of meat is feet, boat race is face, etc.
The Rabbi
im guessing a 'gentlemans' is a 'gentlemans agreement' bet on who will finish higher out of pompey and spurs? anything other than that and im slightly concerned...
Its a gentlemans bet. And I fully qualify as one, seeing as I am sticking my neck out like a giraffe!
Jacky B
good on you mate - i accept the challenge, if i am wrong i will happily come onto the vital spurs mesage boards and say how wrong i was and Jacky B beat me in a 'gentlemans' over who would finish higher :-) spurs really are going to have to go some already at this stage of the season to catch us tho, either that or we are going to have to go on some run of poor results... we will see tho - challenge on!
Well yes. We have lots of making up to do but we did it last year. granted this years start was worse, but it doesn't take long to climb the table. I Think our Game on Sunday away at Wet Spam is vital. Win that and next up is Birmingham at home, and if i remember rightly a trip to Fratton soon after!
Jacky B
weve got the brummies, then everton, villa and then spurs - 12pt gap at the moment i think so depending how big the gap is when the pompey v spurs game comes around we'll see... if its still around the same and then we could beat you at fratton - which we could - even tho we then play liverpool and arsenal that will clinch it for me already :-)
Big talk! Not really a "gentlemens" anymore!! we have Man city at home aswell before you. I am optimistic
Jacky B
5 it is then jacky B that Pompey finish higher than Tottenham.
The Rabbi
I would fully support the point Midge made halfway through about Jamo and Sol being a partnership. I was aguing this last night in the local that the team looked at times as though they had never been introduced. With Jamo and Sol together there would have been a backbone around which the rest of the inexperienced defence could have been built. As it was Richards was poor, Lescott lost and Bridge just fell apart.
oh, to be a croat! Jamo would have held kranjcars shot, come out to stop the second goal, and finger tipped the third wide. positioning is everything when you are in goal, and carson left that bit of the goal open. 30 minutes in, he should have come off. and lampard should not have started, beckham, what was he doing anywhere near the game? people say he did well, but as soon as he came on, suddenly we started playing the long ball game, booting it at crouch(whos goal was sublime). If england want to play the 4-5-1/4-3-3/4-3-2-1/4-1-2-3 that pompey play, then they need to look at some videosof pompey playing, and need to see that sulley muntari and diop dont play anything like lampard and gerard, and that SWP and joe cole arnt as good as utaka and kranjcar. england cant play that formation without a lot of triaing together, which they didnt have, so stick with the formation players know and understand, then put players in positions where they play for there clubs, then give them a bit more freedom, and stop picking reserve forwards! (bent and defoe...spurs 3rd/4th choice, crouch, i dont even know where he fits in at liverpool). i have no-idea what mclaren was thinking picking the side he did, but i honestly beleive that i could have done better!
tbh i thought beckham was one of the plus points - along with crouchy - he has pride and commitment pouring out of him... and personally i thought we were better with beckham on the pitch than we were with wright-phillips, which i did not think was going to be the case when the change was made... hang on, this 'gentlemans' has just become a cash wager!
Has it? I was merely referring to Rabbi, Ungentlemanly conduct/talk.l Up the Brum!!!
Jacky B
Complete and utter shambles was what I witnessed on Wednesday night - Sack them all the FA, The manager, the coaches, the players - If you can not earn a draw against Croatia of your home patch then we really do need to throw it all away and start again... We have two years to build for the World Cup (although qualification is going to be harder as a second seed and only the winner going through - France, Italy, Spain anyone ??) anyway we have two years to build bring in the under 21's play as many 'competitive' matches as possible and then see where we are ... people have pride and passion if you put trust in them ... The players on the park did not have pride and all involved were a disgrace.. Three Lions... three budgies more like..

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