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Debt a STAGGERING 119m!!!!

It just gets worse and worse - the debt level I mean!

We have gone from having debt as 'low' as, what, some 40m at times was it, to a final amount, according to what Admin Andy - who worked 'through the night' to get this done - has told ESPN Soccernet, of epic proportions...

119m worth of debt is owed to 'secure and non-secured creditors', who account for 105m of this debt.

Money, 14m, is owed on various transfer fees to 'money lenders' and 9m owed to more than a dozen agents, which includes 2.3m owed to ONE agent alone for ONE transfer deal they conducted!

38m is owed to 3 'previous owners'...

An amount of 14m, which takes the 105m up to 119m, is 'off the balance sheet' because this 'relates to players.' Gawd only knows what this is? Bonuses, clauses, accommodation and so on and so on I guess?

Admin Andy does not think that the size of debt will 'scare off' potential buyers though, 'far from it' apparently.

It scares me I know that and just HOPE that this REALLY is the final amount and this is everything that we had 'hidden away' in the cupboards. I also hope that these 'creditors' really are owed what they say they are, although that is what Admin Andy and his team are here to find out so we have to have some 'faith' and put 'trust' in them to do this...

Portsmouth accounts reveal 119m debt - here.

Right, I have some loose change in my wallet - 118,999,926 to go...

PLAY UP POMPEY!


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The Journalist

Writer: pompeyrug Mail feedback, articles or suggestions

Date:Tuesday April 20 2010

Time: 11:39AM

Your Comments

74 In the wallet Rug? Where did you get that from?

This debt justs goes up and up every time we meet the administrator. However some of it is claimed but MAY not be substantiated.
eastneydave
Go on then, I'll cover the 26 ! I suggest this bl**dy autograph signing administrator gets his thumb out and starts finding out who is responsible for this staggering debt !!! It really does beggar belief. We went from thinking that the sales and cuts had help cut the debt to around 30M a few months ago, to realising that everybody from Milan Mandaric onwards has taken their slice and just piled on the debt using the Premiership and particularly PFC as a "cash cow".......I suggest we start looking at getting these crooks behind bars.........Ex Chief Execs to boot!!!!!! As for not putting off a potential owner..........ha ha.....cloud cuckoo land springs to mind ! Any owner that lets this happen should have any "directors loans" automatically cancelled due to their bad business practice, it is their fault after all !!!!! I just find these ever changing amounts incredulous
BarneyArmy
How are you in this much debt after selling all those players? We've personally given you over 35m! Diarra to Madrid 25m Johnson to Liverpool 17m its just madness something really dodgy has gone on with those arab owners in my opinion when you consider early estimates were 40m of debt
HuddersfieldYiddo
I am sorry but I cannot for the life of me understand why Admin Andy can't find out where the money has gone, and what we actually owe creditors (Invoices!!!) Or, he isn't telling us. It was my understanding that DD has been completed twice already, and there is one going on now for Rob Lloyd. That should provide a glaring insight into the Profit & Loss accounts and Balance sheets. I am not sure A.A. is the real deal, despite a lot of positive comments on this forum. I have friends in Swindon where he was appointed as administrator, and he has left a very bad taste there. Does his report mention Sol Campbells 2m claim, or is that a dead duck now. Also, I agree BarneyArmy, potential buyers aren't going to like being beholding to outstanding debts to previous owners. Especially, if it was borne out of crooked practices. For me there is still a rancid smell to all this, and it refuses to go away. The other day AA said we would be out of Admin. by end of May. Hmmmmm.
Mike1954
The debt is insane. Also think AA should be more action, less media wh*re. I can see 2 scenarios. A quick death -no CVA,points deduction no buyer and liquidation. Or a slow death -a CVA, Chennai taking over,not putting any money in taking parachute payments, selling players, making a tidy sum then liquidation Plan B is starting to look good -a club thats ours ,whaever level we have to start at
yellowcheesemonkey
FFS fellas read the article .. It says that some of the debt is offset by assests .. This is just headline grabbing reporting .. as for who is owed what .. That was published last week and as Eastneydave says above a lot of this debt is 'claimed' but not verified .. I'm not saying it's not bad (Jeez I'd get shot) .. but I am saying that we should look at the full picture and what has been put out before.. as for going on a which hunt to find out who is responsible I personally think that is a waste of time .. It is not important (to the future) to work out where it is gone the fact is it has ... what is important is to get the CVA in place and move on
Chix
looks like you have been robbed, must have been those fit and proper owners!!!
keefdayid
on the other hand some one told me there's a lot of Villans in the area
keefdayid
Sorry Chix, its not good enough to say "the debt is claimed" The Administrators job is to pin it down and verify the claims to the last penny. As for forgetting about whose responsible, that is in the past, is grossly negligent. Everyone is accountable for their actions and we have a right to know what has happened. It is remiss not to hold people to account. Look at what is happening at Goldman Sachs right now, do you think some one is going to say "Oh well, thats what happened lets move on" No chance. All of football has a lesson to learn here, and the truth should come out so that measures can be put in place to stop any repeats. Whats happened to our Club is dispicable and those who did it should be named and shamed without exception.
Mike1954
Thats all very well Chix, and I have read the article, BUT where are the assets? Yes the ground covers some of the owed money to Chanrai, the rest of the land is held by Gaydamak (but don't suggest for an instance that the surrounding ground covers the 30M he wants!), But take those assets away and what is there left to buy?? I agree a witch hunt doesn't help us going forward, but at some stage somebody has got to be held to account or it wil simply just happen again, again and again !!! and have a FFS right back at ya ! :-)
BarneyArmy
I remember after we sold johnson 18.5m diarra 20m defoe 16m crouch 10m muntari 16.5m distin 6m krankjar 2m a certain peter story went on to the quay and said that pompey were now near enough debt free....... bloody hell where the hell has this debt come from then????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
pompeyhussler
You still owe us (Chelsea) a ton after the Johnson deal. Don't think you can get away without paying lads, we need to money! ;)
Haigh_For_7
Money laundering at a rediculous level. How many hands in the till? Something not very right here. Whose covering whose ar5e here? Not convinced admin andy is any better then those in the past. he's in the pocket of chinarai. All needs to come out!
storagematt
i think that it is important, to the future, to find out what has happened in the past though, right?
sacha says we owe him X amount, chainrai says we owe him X amount, al faraj, SAF etc. all say we owe them X amount but DO we owe them? do they have 'legally binding contracts' that PROVE we owe them what they say...before we go on and agree to paying back these people, be it 10p in the pound or the full amount wouldnt some investigtion into what they HAD done with money that came in not explain something?
i am sorry, i know we paid out alot in bonuses, wages and transfer fees but we have brought in a shed load in TV money, 'transfer fees' and so on over the years so even with these stupid bonuses and wages it just does not seem possible that we have stacked up 119m worth of debt? quite literally it seems as tho, if this is the case, everything has been done on an i owe you basis - i know football is a 'business' but has anyone actually put their hand in their own pocket once for this club over the past god knows how many years, well apart from us mugs...
pompeyrug
Mike & Barney (in response)... I wasn't suggesting we just accept the debt is claimed .. hence why I referred to the fact that it has to be verified .. as to the other points about holding people to account I don't (really) for one minute disagree with anything either of you say .. however my point is 'There's no point crying over spilt milk'.. It is of course horrific what has happened but 'it has happened' and I just think that for AA to spend time trying to unraval years of mis-accounting, fraud, deception (call it what you will) will hold us back and cast a shadow over the club for a long time to come .. Look how the Harry and Milan tax saga has dragged on and on and what has been proved .. absolutley nothing !.. If it was a simple case of calling one or two people to account then I would be all in favour of it .. but the only ones who will truly know what has gone on are those that have done it(whoever they are .. probably all of them). I honestly can (clearly) see where you are coming from fellas and half of me agrees .. but I can't help feeling that we (and the rest of football) should shallow the pill, learn the lesson, put it behind us, put plans in place to ensure it never happens again to any club and move on ... oh Barney can I ping that FFS back at ya again ;)
Chix
Oh FFS ! Of course you can. I agree, and it is a big part of the solution....the FA/Prem Lge need to make sure that this cannot happen again, but they can't even get a national stadium right - so what hope ? PUP
BarneyArmy
Scary - means at some point our "real" debt was near 200m, when you think of what has come in...
scott mc
...and you can BUY Liverpool FC, lock, stock & barrel for that!
scott mc
Does anybody know if we have indeed "drawn down" any of our Parachute Payment money as yet??? I do hope not, as that is going to be essential over the next 3-4 years.
BarneyArmy
I will take a slightly different tack then on the issue of who. Why can't A.A. contact Real Madrid Finance Director and get all the relevant Data/documents on where all the transfer fees were directed too for Diarra's transfer. Then find out what happened to the funds it when they got there. Same with all the other transfer funds. If it was all legal and above board there should be a clean electronic trail to follow. Everyone and his dog wants to know what happened to them, and how the money was used. However, no-one is prepared to say. Is there a legitimate reason not too? Chix we have to look to the future, I agree, however, there is no reason why the facts shouldn't be uncovered however long it takes.The cicumstances shouldn't get in the way of integrity. And God knows there has been very little of that so far.
Mike1954
Jesus !!!!!!! Is that the debt now or at it's worse?
PFC-Jono
Fair shout Mike .. but I've a feeling it won't be as simple as just ringing up (say) Real Madrid and requesting the information... Look how long it has taken to 'try' and get hold of Fulgers Accounts .. three months and counting eh .. and they were 'supposed' to be on our side .. Still as I said I DO (half) agree with you .. but my dog doesn't ;) ... Whatever they do about the past I think we both agree that we need to move forward stably and transparently and ensure it never happens again ... Anywhere
Chix
now jono... and mike et all lets sort out the debt first then we can have a witch hunt yea! also remember that 90m of that debt is unsecured and with a CVA its expected we'd only be paying 20p in so we'd actually have to pay.. what 18mil plus the 29mil we owe to secured creditors and to be honest 47mil for a football club isn't all that bad so calm down people we all just got to hope we get the CVA and we should be fine!
pompeym@
It seems the more AA digs the worse it gets; I wonder what the off balance sheet payments were? When you find out Storrie was a big contributor to footballing that's why he got a footballers bonus, you have to wonder what the criteria is..
russellm
Its not OK tho Pompeym@, Alot of that unsecured debt is to local people and pompey fans who helped out Pompey in the good years, and in their hour of need......Just because a CVA will clear alot of it (and your punt I suspect is a little optomistic!) does not make it ok!!47M for Pompey ! It simply is not worth that - The only person that can make this work for themselves and the Club as a prospering concern for the fans will need to be loaded.
BarneyArmy
I was just beginning to feel that things were stabilising, and more confident about the future, and now this. It is important that we find out what has gone on, and that if there is someone to be brought to account, that they are. Not just for Pompey but for all the other football clubs who are teetering on the brink as well, and I really believe there are many. I have to say, if I was a prospective owner, trying to decide whether or not to buy the club, this would frighten me off well and truly. But we do have to trust Admin Andy to do his job and do the best he can to sort it out. I am aware of his history at Swindon, and it concerns me, but he's in charge and there's nothing we can do about it, so we have to wait for him to do what he has to do.
tracyc
To be honest barney i was trying to be a bit more optimistic cause (imo) theres bugger all point sitting around moping (lol), but yea your right, and whilst i couldn't care less about the big banks etc losing money its the small local business that are gonna be hit by this the most and that really does suck big time, unfortunatly theres is literally nothing we can do about that and thats why i do feel we need to see our so called owners brought to justice for it BUT only after we have the safety of our club, theres no good doing a half a*sed job on both parts. For what its worth though from what i've been told 20p isn't too unrealistic but i'm far from an expert
pompeym@
1. I think I am right in saying, that the bigger the debt the less chance of the TAXTAX people of blocking the CVA, there fore every penny owed has been brought into the equation. 2. It Was PS who said were were "Virtually debt free"...need I say more?? 3. With this amount of CASH flow, Mr GAYDAMAK Snr's Washeteria Accountants are too good for any thing to be discovered by AA. I think if RL's bloke can pay everyone at 10p in the pound_remember Leeds payed at a Penny in the Pound, that would make the purchase of the club 12ml...now that is a deal.
plymouth graham
Graham is correct, get every penny accounted for and the Tax man is likely to move on to someone else. Heard today that we are likely to offer 23p in the pound, so.... 27,370,000 is what the debt would be if this is true, however the 40 here and 120 there i would like to see paid in full as those a re bills to little local businesses and they need their money, its the likes of gaydamac and Faraj i dont think should get the full amount as they owned us so its there loss.
Midge
There sucking the life blood out of this club. Put in a 1 & take out 5. Yes worried about the parachute payments, who will be getting them?
storagematt
Sorry (again) Chix but it is as simple as contacting Finance Directors of the other Clubs if we haven't got the records of the transactions. Clubs like Real Madrid are audited and their records are published for Tax reasons etc. What I can't reconcile (also my dog) is that no one is prepared to say what happened to the money. I, and millions of others wouldn't mind if AA came clean on the matter but he hasn't. I have always believed that Sasha has taken it, so as Plymouth Graham says, are his accountants to clever for AA. I don't believe it's about being clever I don't think AA is up to it, I think he's lazy. Swindon FC comes to mind again. Why he has gone public again with this massive debt story is beyond me, it's not clever and neither is it truly accurate.
Mike1954
Midge, i'm pretty sure its only the unsecured debt that is effected by the CVA so it'd still be 47(ish) mil to pay for the club. but yes i agree i'd love all the local business's be paied in full but i don't see it happening unfortunatly.
pompeym@
 

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